Updated: Head of British Sikh Association Attacks Kirpan

Update: In the original article we stated that Rami Ranger asked for the Kirpan to be dropped as a Kakkar. In our correspondences with Mr. Ranger he has clarified that he believes that the Kirpan should not be more than 3 inches (to our understanding be believes this limitation should apply in all situations) and should be dull. Thus, Mr. Ranger wants to see the Kirpan relegated to the status of a useless symbol. Mr. Ranger states (as seen below) that “It is also a fact that many terrorists resemble us in their appearance, so why give a chance to anyone who may easily mistake us as one of them.” The editors at Sikh24 find this type of reasoning to be very detrimental to the Panth as the same reasoning can / is used by many to falsely assert that other Sikh requirements such as Kesh and Dastaar should also be done away with. We hope Mr. Ranger sees the ramifications of this type of reasoning and changes his stance before more damage is done to the Panth. The original article is printed below:

— On 27th August 2012, Dr. Rami Ranger, a self-proclaimed representative of the Sikh community and Chairman of the British Sikh Association, wrote a letter to S. Avtar Singh Makkar, President of the SGPC (Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee – the mini-Parliament of the Sikhs). He asked for the Kirpan to be dropped as an article of the Sikh faith. What hope can the British Sikh community hold in such individuals to defend their religious rights when they clearly have little knowledge of Sikh traditions and values?

Following is the text of the correspondence from Rami Ranger to the SGPC.

From: Rami Ranger <[email protected]>

To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, 27 August 2012, 12:39
Subject: RE: Kirpan and safety of Sikhs.

To, The President of the SGPC,

Dear Khalsa Ji,

Gur Fateh.

 

In view of the changing world where terrorism has become an integral part of everyday life, we ought to take a fresh look at our religious symbol, the Kirpan.

In any case, it is now considered to be just a symbol rather than a necessary weapon for our protection as it once was.

In any case, we are no longer fighting the Mughals.

The next wars will be fought with the help of science and technology.

We can see in some part of the world how drone attacks are not providing protection to those who once considered themselves to be invincible.

Besides, we now live in a civilised world where there is police and the rule of law to protect our liberties along with everyone else in society.

Regrettably, the Kirpan can no longer provide us defence if the other person is carrying a gun.

In some cases, the culprit will even be encouraged to use the gun if he sees a person with a Kirpan.

It is also a fact that many terrorists resemble us in their appearance, so why give a chance to anyone who may easily mistake us as one of them.

Many of our fellow Sikhs have been the victims of mistaken identity. We cannot sit back and do nothing whilst someone else gets killed.

 We have a responsibility to do something for their sake as well as for the sake of our fellow Sikhs who could also become victims of a mistaken identity unwittingly with dire consequences for their loved ones.

We must also not provide a spectacle at airports and seaports by standing out by wearing Kirpan.

It is our duty to make the job of security personnels of securing us and our families easier by not holding them or the rest of the passengers whilst we insist on carrying full size Kirpan. 

You will agree that it is very difficult to change the world but it is relatively easy to change ourselves to adapt to the changing world.

A species which will survive in the future will not be the most intelligent or the strongest, but one who can adapt to change.

I believe the time has come for us to adapt to survive by carrying only a 3 inch ceremonial Kirpan as a mark of respect to our Gurus who liberated us after paying supreme sacrifices.

Our Gurus will understand the situation. Besides, they always advocated that we must live by our actions and deeds rather than rituals.

 Please provide leadership so that we remain a prosperous and progressive community in line with the vision of our Gurus for the entire mankind.

The Sikhs must move with the times rather than trying to remain the monuments of our past.

Please do forgive me if my views do not make sense.

I mean well for our community. I thank you for your understanding.

The British Sikh Association, which Mr. Ranger is the Chairman of, does not seem to promote the basic Sikh fundamentals in its annual dinner.  This past year, dance was part of the function and alcohol was provided to the attendees, despite it being a cardinal taboo in the Sikh religion.

Picture from the 2011 Annual British Sikh Association Dinner

Dr. Ranger MBE, is a successful entrepreneur and businessman in the UK. As well as being the Chairman of the British Sikh Association, he is the Patron of the India Association UK and founding member of the Hindu Forum Britain. Mr. Ranger is quoted as saying that the Hindu Forum Britain was set up to “unite all the different Hindu Organizations in Britain under one umbrella so that they could project a cohesive voice in British government departments.” On Wikipedia Mr. Ranger is quoted as saying that “it was essential for the public to know about the Hindu religion…”

He is also quoted on Wikipedia that the British Sikh Association was “set up to stop the extremist Sikh organizations from representing the Sikh point of view in Britain.” He adds that he has “vigorously argued with these extremist organizations that the Sikhs were created to defend the unity, integrity and the basic human rights of every Indian and not to break her up.”

In 2005 Mr. Ranger was made a Member of the British Empire, for his services to British Business and the Asian Community. The Sikh Channel (UK) have given Mr. Ranger recognition by inviting him to speak on ‘Dastaar Day’ in London in September 2011 and also awarded in the “Sikh Channel Awards”.

Self Proclaimed leaders of the Community at the Annual British Sikh Association Dinner

42 COMMENTS

  1. What a joke his letter is, Rami Ranger is no one to comment on Sikh matters when he himself aint a Sikh of the Guru. Also who are we to change Guru Sahib’s hukam? no one. He probably has written this letter(read litter) under the influence of alcohol he is so fond of. ;-)

  2. I wonder how these Bunch of crooks call themselves Sikh. Now the people who don’t look like a sikh nor have anything to do with sikh spirit, values and faith , enjoying dances and holding glass of alcohal with some joker looking Nakli sikhs ,,they will decide and tell us what amendments we should make in our Dharam , in our Kakkars given to us by The Guru because the “”time has changed now and we should move on with it””.
    Yes we don’t fit in society now because of the teachings , path, identity, and symbols given to us By our Guru ,we feel ashamed wearing them. We should shorten the length of our hairs, beards as well, we should remove our turbans and wear caps if we want to stand and walk with respect in world. Next attack will be we should change/amend our Guru now………… coz time has changed nw !!

    In our Great India where more than half million sikhs have been killed in a haulocaust by hindu government, and everyday there is a news of encounter/arrests/torture of innocent sikh people and government is Paying these people/agents to spoil image of sikhism internationally, make our religion a history, a useless philosophy, give us an identity of criminal and terrorists.

    One who takes Amrit of Guru and become a son of Guru Gobind Singh ji , only he knows whats the importance of Kakkars in Dharam. Amendment in kakkars/symbols means amendments in Guru.

    Sri mukh bhanneyo Garib Niwaj
    Shastaran ke Adeen hai Raaj
    Raj bina neh Dharam chale hain
    Dharam bina Sab Dle Mle hain……

    Nowadays, rare are Sikhs that walk in the path shown by the Guru, coz they have left no faith in Immortal Guru ,but in Shallow Mortal World.

  3. Obviously a few different issues going on here.

    YES – no religious event should have alcohol consumption at them. But the again Gurdwaras are making function halls which they wish to rent out for weddings and allow alcohol to be consumed, all just to make money – so that’s a bit hypocritical.

    What has been said regarding Kirpan has some merit – we should be evolving. However tradition is important too. Then again, we were guided not to blindly follow traditions by our gurus were we not? Of course anyone without the 5Ks is not technically considered a sikh by the SGPC I believe, so the actual number of sikhs in the world is probably much less from my experience of friends and family.

  4. What the hell is this? If they’re representing Sikhs at a Sikh event, there should be NO ALCOHOL PERIOD!! This is shameful! No wonder we have so many problems in our community with leaders like these.

  5. Dr. Singh, the reason why he is jumping around is due to have sikh24 have headlined the story and the fact that he did not say ban the kirpan. Also not too sure what Wiki link you refer to (may have missed something) but remember Wiki is open sauce information, meaning you can add whatever you like. Get the point.

  6. Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa, Vaheguru ji ki fateh.

    It is interesting to read all the comments and opinions. Jas you need to click on the Wikipedia link and see it clearly state why BSA was set up, I think you will find the writer of this article is indeed correct. Making your whole post invalid.

    I think it is a well written article and rami ranger has taken great offence when he need not, after all this is an opinion of the writer and he has freedom of speech. I don’t see what was so hurtful or intimidating about this article. Seems rami ranger and co have taken a real dislike to a few facts that have been stated and need to stop jumping up and down like children.

    How is it these days if someone disagrees they automatically are labelled and categorised as ‘fanatic, extremist or fundamentalist’? How can you tarnish someone with those labels so easily? On one hand we state it is ok to have different views but when one does he is automatically a young fanatic. Maybe a little growing up is needed and a little look in the mirror.

    Thank you for reading my comments.

    Good day to you all.

    Dr Harry Singh

  7. Clearly ranger chap is misguided and doesnt understand Guru Gobind Singhs Hukam, its things like this that is diluting Sikhi, and is basically taking away our uniqueness and richness under the guise of “Getting with the times”

    Jas, Brother if we the sikhs or other religions thought in that way there would be no religion and everything would be distorted.

    its ludicrous that Ranger is a “So called leader” , leader of who may I ask?

    • ‘…there would be no religion and everything would be destroyed…’

      Not too sure what you mean by this.

      Looking back in history a majority of the wars in the world have been based around religion, your statement does not make sense.

      I say to you as well, Ranger did not say ban the kirpan, he simply says to carry a smaller one.

  8. No one in Akal Takht will ever entertain this letter so it’s a non-issue.

    Dr Ranger and BSA have no collective influence in Sikh affairs in the UK or on a global level, they are just a dinner party group who meet at an annual function for a buffet.

    The Sikh identity is here to stay forever whether people like it or not and thousands of us will sacrifice our lives in the UK to safeguard our identity rather than lose it. Sikhi roop is in Chardi Kala.

  9. Did you know that at the times of the gurus people didn’t have the internet……… did you know at the time of the Gurus people didn’t have cars……. did you know at the time of the Guru’s people didn’t have an iPhone……… did you know at the time of the Guru’s people didn’t have flat screen tv’s….

    …. does that mean i can’t have them now?

    Get a grip guys. (sorry to the people who do understands)

    I point out again that this chap did not say get rid of the Kirpan all together…… please who think he has said that learn how to read.

    As for SS, as Sikhs we should not look down at other religions/castes….. what’s so bad about a Brahmin… you are not a nice person mate, how can you call yourself a Sikh…. shame on you.

    When Guru Gobind Singh Ji made the Sikhs he wanted us to be the best of the best. At the time only the kings could where turbans, so he gave us a turban, only the top class rich people had a full beard, so he gave us a full beard…. and so on……. and today what are we doing… looking back.

    • Dear Jatinder,

      Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

      Farid Ji said. Frida jai tein maren mukia tina na mari ghum aap nare ghar jaiyke pair tina de chum.

      Guru Arjan Dev Ji said, Bishar gayi sab tat parai no ko verri nahi begana sagal sang hum jo ban aye.

      Thank you for your comments. I never said ban the Kirpan.

      Those who have misunderstood my comments speak volumes about their understanding.

      People who use race or religion for a feel good factor show that they lack merit.

      We are all right from our point of view as our point of view is based on our understanding, knowledge, education and above all, vision.

      Some Sikhs hate Hindus, yet they read Hindu teachings in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji every day. The maximum contribution to Guru Granth Sahib ji is made by Hindu saints.

      We must pay tribute to our Gurus for not behaving like fanatics, but who taught us not to hate anyone who does not think, act or behave like us. People are answerable to their makers and to these self proclaimed custodians of Sikh religion.

      Sikh Gurus fought for human rights and that includes freedom of religion, thoughts and opinions. Let’s not take this right away. Now these people want to control others with abuse and intimidation.
      For evil to flourish, all it takes is for good people to do nothing.

      Ours is a religion of love, peace and harmony. Guru Nanak Dev Ji spent all his life in the company of Bala and Mardana. One was a Sikh and the other a Muslim. Not once did Guru Ji ask either of them to change their religion. Instead, Guru Ji respected every faith and based our religion on interfaith teachings.

      Should Sikhs hate anyone? Those who do, cannot be following the teachings of Sikh Gurus.

      Some Sikhs want Khalistan for themselves despite the fact, Guru Gobind Singh Ji established the Brotherhood of Khalsa to defend basic human rights of every Indian and not break up Mother India. They claim to be greater visionaries than Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

      These misguided demand Khalistan from the sanctuary of countries USA, Canada and the UK. Why they don’t they demand Khalistan from within India?
      This is because they want the Sikhs in India bear the consequence of their actions.

      I hope the editor of Sikh 24 prints my email.

      I would like to see his qualifications, achievements and track record of public service to establish who he really is?

      Apart from abusing people as a cyber warrior, this man should act like a real Sikh warrior and give his identity like I have.

      Most of these venom producing machines live off others.

      I am sure you would not like Sikhs to be like sheep following someone blindly and allowing them to control us with abuse in the absence of merit.

      When we respect other religions, we in fact respect our religion which has taught us this virtue.

      I made an observation as our fellow Sikh was killed carrying a Kirpan. If you feel I am wrong, then I respect your judgment.

      Let’s hope no other Sikh is killed carrying a long Kirpan unnecessarily.

      God bless you

      Rami Ranger

    • Jas, again you fail to understand that Makkar and Co at Sukhbir Group Private Company (SGPC) has no say in the matter to lenghthen or shorten the kirpan or the kesh. Write to whoever he likes ,to the Khalsa who strive to be REHITVANT its of no consequence. Ranger :Barking at passing cars methinks.
      Also Guru Sahib ordained us into a fraternity of Rehit he did not make us into “sikhs” like those sitting at the table with whiskey/alcohol glasses in their hands. And no it wasnt the rich who kept beards, where did u get that from? The shabad “sabat surat, dastaar sira” was composed by Guru Nanak, beards were a part of sikhi from the offset.

  10. Who is this Brahmin minded co called Rami Ranger who is representing sikh.

    He is Moona him self and pretending to be speaking for sikhs HOW DARE IS HE
    Talking about KIPRAN. and Kakars.

    Indian Govt. behind his talk.

    Where ARE the SIKH LEADERS OF UK ?????

  11. Every one can understand why this sort of view is coming up regarding KIRPAN. The pictures above speak themselves about these persons with glasses of drinks in their hands how much understanding & respect they have for Kirpan & the FIVE KAKARS of an AMRITDHAR .Read SHASTAR NAAMA in DASAM GRANTH of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

  12. It does not matter what one agrees or not.The Kirpan reduced to its present size was presented by GURU GOBIND SINGH and made an ARTICLE of SIKH faith.Rami Rangger is NOT the GURU to decide for Sikhs.Perhaps ARROGANCE has gone to his mind and he thinks he can write such pathetic letters and get the KIRPAN removed from the articles of Sikh faith.He is wrong.

    However, I must agree with JAS there is a lot of habitual slandering of people going on by Sikhs, sikh sites,the lies and manipulated stories that go on here are somewtimes unbeleivable.Sikhs have emerged as the best at slandering esspcially anaother sikhs if one does not get his way.

    No wonder they are in deep doldrums over so many issues….The khalistanis, the AKJ, the so called different Jathas etc are nothing more than ego booster at play by a few foolish and over zealous sikhs who have no logical understanding nor insight into the fact that the first and formost thing that is danger to us is the BRAHMANWAD that has envoloped the entire sikh faith!That is where we need to start with …instead of making fools of each other.

    • Gurcharan Singh, hope you are well.

      i am not too sure if you have read the letter properly… he has not asked for it to be removed, he has simply asked if we could carry a smaller one.

    • Gurcharan Singhji,

      With due respect , Guruji also bestowed future course of Khalsa panth in hands of Sadh sangat. Articles of faith are bound to change with change in environment. This in-ability to change is what is stifling Sikhism in present times and should be abhored.

      WE have to decide whether we would define our existence just by our previous experience to brahmanvad or broader engagement with contemporary world.

  13. I totally agree with Jas. Inflamed headlines and those who do not read the article leave with a distorted perception. This type of reporting does not help the Sikh Community. We all have our agendas and the one for 24Sikh.com should be truth and a well balanced view.

    Our religion stared out as a saintly one and when the time came we adapted to the needs of the day and became warriors. Our Gurus believed in changing with the times.

    Who here proclaims to know better than our Gurus?

  14. it is scary how certain sikh interest groups perpatrate such lies about fellow sikhs.
    Dr. Rami Ranger has said nothing wrong or anti-sikh. what he advocates is a very balanced solution to carrying kirpans. we do not live under the thrall of mughhals or in punjab. Considering we live in a multi polar world with other communities, we are not offending our gurus by carrying smaller kirpans.

    only the fundemental and extremist have a problem with this. Somehow his association with hindu groups makes him a paid agent or anti-sikh?

    • Paid agent and anti sikh, agree with you entirely. And recent events show that his handlers in the GOI have tried to get at sikhs and our kirpans before and now by calling for the outright ban due to its supposed misuse. Ranger does not speak for us extremists as you refer to us,he’s like an arsenal supporter asking the FA to throw Spurs out of the premier league. He is a nobody and not a sikh by any definition, and certainly not a “fellow sikh” as u refer to him.

  15. @Jas, Guru Sahib says “panj shaster bandh ke Darshan ko avanah” Do u think that a 3″ replica is suitable and part of the Rehit of sikhi. Guru jee further adds,”Rehit pyari mujh ko, SIKH pyara NAHIN”.We are not here to tamper with the rehit for some nationalistic ideology, we are to remain inGuru’s Rehit. Next this guy will be asking SGPC to ask “sikhs” to wear a cloth kachera around the neck with small kirpan ,kanga and khanda, what do you say to that? This guy is not a sikh by any definition and cannot speak for us. He and his whiskey swigging chums have no say in the matter.

  16. I totally agree with Jas, inflamed headlines in order to provoke a reaction when really this should be a place for information and truth. Many will not read beyond the headlines and make thier own false conclusions. This is not helping the Sikh community in any way.

    Our religion stared out as a saintly one and when the time came we adapted to the needs of the day and became warriors. Our Gurus believed in changing with the times.

    Who here proclaims to know better than our Gurus?

    Everyone has their own agenda. I am saddened that Sikh24.com’s agenda is not true Sikhi.

    • Satwant,you say we have adapted in the past, agreed, but it was Guru Sahib who decreed the change, even tho Guru Nanak Sahib had proposed it.Its upto the the Guru to make any changes now but yet you propose that no one is suited to make these changes. So who do you want to make these changes for you so that you dont need to wear a kirpan, kachera, kanga, kara and have the latest hairstyle. Heard it all before, remember Guru Sahib is not interested in sikhs, but REHIT, so you want to change rehit top suit you?

  17. in my opinion we need some modifications regarding these issues,if panj piare are equal to guru,they should come forward and do some productive hukamnama otherwise we will be lagging behind for centuries without any achievements.ik onkar waheguru

  18. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rami_Ranger
    The quote is taken from the above link moderated by Wikipedia.
    Anyway, the central issue is that the Kirpan is timeless.

    Rami has a fascinating past.
    I suggest we share with him the true meaning of the Kirpan.
    We Sikhs defend the defenseless.

    http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Kirpan

    The kirpan has both a physical function & symbolic function.
    Physically it is an instrument of “Ahimsa” or non-violence. The principle of ahimsa is to actively prevent violence, not to simply stand by idly whilst violence is being done. To that end, the kirpan is a tool to be used to prevent violence from being done to a defenseless person when all other means to do so have failed. Symbolically, the kirpan represents the power of truth to cut through untruth. It is the cutting edge of the enlightened mind.

    • Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

      Farid Ji said. Frida jai tein maren mukia tina na mari ghum aap nare ghar jaiyke pair tina de chum.

      Guru Arjan Dev Ji said, Bishar gayi sab tat parai no ko verri nahi begana sagal sang hum jo ban aye.

      Thank you for your comments. I never said ban the Kirpan.

      Those who have misunderstood my comments speak volumes about their understanding.

      People who use race or religion for a feel good factor show that they lack merit.

      We are all right from our point of view as our point of view is based on our understanding, knowledge, education and above all, vision.

      Some Sikhs hate Hindus, yet they read Hindu teachings in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji every day. The maximum contribution to Guru Granth Sahib ji is made by Hindu saints.

      We must pay tribute to our Gurus for not behaving like fanatics, but who taught us not to hate anyone who does not think, act or behave like us. People are answerable to their makers and to these self proclaimed custodians of Sikh religion.

      Sikh Gurus fought for human rights and that includes freedom of religion, thoughts and opinions. Let’s not take this right away. Now these people want to control others with abuse and intimidation.
      For evil to flourish, all it takes is for good people to do nothing.

      Ours is a religion of love, peace and harmony. Guru Nanak Dev Ji spent all his life in the company of Bala and Mardana. One was a Sikh and the other a Muslim. Not once did Guru Ji ask either of them to change their religion. Instead, Guru Ji respected every faith and based our religion on interfaith teachings.

      Should Sikhs hate anyone? Those who do, cannot be following the teachings of Sikh Gurus.

      Some Sikhs want Khalistan for themselves despite the fact, Guru Gobind Singh Ji established the Brotherhood of Khalsa to defend basic human rights of every Indian and not break up Mother India. They claim to be greater visionaries than Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

      These misguided demand Khalistan from the sanctuary of countries USA, Canada and the UK. Why they don’t they demand Khalistan from within India?
      This is because they want the Sikhs in India bear the consequence of their actions.

      I hope the editor of Sikh 24 prints my email.

      I would like to see his qualifications, achievements and track record of public service to establish who he really is?

      Apart from abusing people as a cyber warrior, this man should act like a real Sikh warrior and give his identity like I have.

      Most of these venom producing machines live off others.

      I am sure you would not like Sikhs to be like sheep following someone blindly and allowing them to control us with abuse in the absence of merit.

      When we respect other religions, we in fact respect our religion which has taught us this virtue.

      I made an observation as our fellow Sikh was killed carrying a Kirpan. If you feel I am wrong, then I respect your judgment.

      Let’s hope no other Sikh is killed carrying a long Kirpan unnecessarily.

      God bless you

      Rami Ranger

  19. Jas its good to finally read sense from a true SIKH and not a young fanatic[Like the young fanatics seen in U.K and Canada], a true Sikh will understand Humanity is more important than any religion,as that is true meening of Sikh faith.Logic tells us to adapt as even Sikhism changed and adapted during its formation. In simple terms a law passed today is relevant for todays environment, not for society in 500 years as World affairs are in constant change, hence everything must evolve for the better of mankind.

  20. I actually agree with the man.

    In the time of the Gurus wars where won on the battle field and a sword where essential to the victory. This chap has not asked for them to drop the Kirpan as a Sikh article, he has simply asked for smaller ones to be carried as a symbol rather than a form of defence, as in many respects a sword is not a form of defence against a gun.

    As for what is written on Wiki…. come on guys i can make up a load of lies about sikh24.com and put them on wiki…. that doesn’t mean it’s true.

    Come on guys be factual in your report writing, don’t just slander someone for no reason.

    • “…it is now considered to be just a symbol rather than a necessary weapon for our protection as it once was…

      …The Sikhs must move with the times rather than trying to remain the monuments of our past….

      …Our Gurus will understand the situation. Besides, they always advocated that we must live by our actions and deeds rather than rituals…”

      I think this is a very sensible and futuristic letter and kudos to such thought and belief.

      We Sikhs don’t need kirpans to define us.

      May good sense prevail.

      Sat Sri Akal

      :)

  21. Can you imagine this guy in another two years asking for the sikhs to stop wearing the dastaar because it does not integrate with the modern world. What a joker, the 10th master made the khalsa unique to stand out from others, the kirpan is a venerated holy article for the khalsa. Khalsa mero roop hai khaas!! , remember that ranger das ji !!!

  22. I support Sikh books 100%…the reality of world misery is leaving Purity of what Gursikhi has to offer for filth of sinful living..to be doomed in darkness hereafter..Waheguru Satnam..

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